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alt5250 61M
1283 posts
8/27/2015 12:29 pm

I too am not a big fan of easy access to hand guns... But that is For another day.

There is a very fine line between what is sane & what isn't & how it changes between differnt people. Anger-frustration-hopelessness are many (but not all) of the factors that can be involved.

There is no one solution, but I think one where many parts each contribute to a safer world.

Yes life is viewed as cheap & when easy access to military grade assault rifles in countries exists, heck hand guns are even less of a problem. And now I will get off my Soap box as I am sure an equal number of people will disagree with me.


alt5250 61M
1283 posts
8/27/2015 12:40 pm

And you are so very right about that...... (No judgement intended or conveyed).


marshamay 35F
5934 posts
8/27/2015 1:16 pm

Last time a flag was blamed .


marshamay 35F
5934 posts
8/27/2015 2:45 pm

    Quoting  :

maybe ,maybe not , maybe i should have said banned , so , no racism this time ? no symbolic flag ?


alt5250 61M
1283 posts
8/27/2015 4:52 pm

I find myself coming back to say more... (Warning, keep in mind I am not a U.S. Citizen)

I think for the most part I agree with Axeburner & others, but two points come to mind.

The first Is that there has been a slow creep in the firepower being used. (Aside from Al Capone style) it has Gone from .32 or .38 pistols to rifles or carbines to assault rifles & beyond.. Think of the big shootout the LA police had a number of years ago against two guys with body armour & AK-47's... The cops ended up going into a sporting goods store for better weaponry as they couldn't touch those guys... So yes where does it stop. Surely no one can think there is a right to have rocket propelled grenades or worse.

Second... I think the US founding fathers had a smooth bore .50 or greater calibre black powder musket in mind when they wrote the second amendment.... How people translate that to assault rifles is beyond me... I am good with the black powder muskets, I really am.


IAmMichaelURKnot 62M
14380 posts
8/27/2015 5:37 pm

    Quoting alt5250:
    I find myself coming back to say more... (Warning, keep in mind I am not a U.S. Citizen)

    I think for the most part I agree with Axeburner & others, but two points come to mind.

    The first Is that there has been a slow creep in the firepower being used. (Aside from Al Capone style) it has Gone from .32 or .38 pistols to rifles or carbines to assault rifles & beyond.. Think of the big shootout the LA police had a number of years ago against two guys with body armour & AK-47's... The cops ended up going into a sporting goods store for better weaponry as they couldn't touch those guys... So yes where does it stop. Surely no one can think there is a right to have rocket propelled grenades or worse.

    Second... I think the US founding fathers had a smooth bore .50 or greater calibre black powder musket in mind when they wrote the second amendment.... How people translate that to assault rifles is beyond me... I am good with the black powder muskets, I really am.
In the USA civilians are generally prohibited from owning full auto assault rifles ( exceptions require a special license - which is difficult to obtain - issued by the federal government ). What many people refer to as "assault rifles" are, in fact, semi-auto rifles. The two guys you use in your example possessed and used illegally modified weapons and homemade body armor.

The founding fathers didn't possess radio technology, television technology, computer technology, digital printing technology, etc. If we were to apply your line of reasoning to the First Amendment then freedom of the press would only be guaranteed if a publication was produced via late 18th Century technology.

I remember now.


lastguymn 56M

8/27/2015 5:48 pm

Katie, you know this is probably the only area where you and I have a serious disagreement, and I respect and value your opinion a great deal, so please know that my criticisms of your arguments aren't criticisms of you.

First off, I want to say that I think your list of solutions are FANTASTIC...we should do everything on the list to the nth degree, and we would certainly have more peaceful, caring world.

And I love your allusions to teaching our children...I could not agree more...but there's a step that's missing, I'm afraid. When you have a new toddler in the house (or more than one, as I and many others have survived to tell the tale), you of course begin immediately with teaching them to avoid dangers such as running with sharp objects, consuming cleaning products, and keeping their little fingers out of the electrical sockets. But even though we understand how important these lessons are and do our best to teach them well, we also move certain things to higher shelves, install tot locks on cabinets, and plug up every electrical outlet with those impossible even for adults to remove covers. Why? Because we know the lessons take time, and we know the safety precautions work with immediate effect.

Gun control is just like toddler proofing. It's attempting to remove the immediate threat, and we can then work on the bigger and more difficult to implement root causes. With nine guns for every ten citizens in the U.S., the immediate threat is everywhere. I don't advocate nor even think it possible to completely disarm our entire nation, but think of the good that could be accomplished if we could reduce that ratio to even 5 or 6 for every 10 people. Yes, bad guys could still get their hands on weapons, but it would make it a little more difficult, and even a small improvement would save thousands of lives. It works elsewhere...America has 40 times more gun deaths per capita compared to your adopted home, the U.K. Japan, where there are extremely low rates of civilian gun ownership due to strong gun control, has one gun-related death for every 177 in the U.S.

I'm not saying gun control is the only answer, but it's a big part of the answer...the numbers bear that out...imagine what destroying 50 to 100 million guns (less than half of America's arsenal) could do...imagine how many lives that would positively impact.


~LastGuy

"It's great to be here. It's great to be anywhere." -- Keith Richards

"There are many spokes on the wheel of life. First, we're here to explore new possibilities." -- Ray Charles


alt5250 61M
1283 posts
8/27/2015 8:32 pm

IamMichaelURKnot. Agree with you for the most part & yes I used a circular argument on the 2nd amendment.

But the first point was to illustrate how firepower keeps escalating. While illegal there can be no doubt quite a few are taking assault style weapons built to meet the law & modifying them.

Re the 2nd amendment... The only difference is that one kills with great effectiveness & the other not so much.. But there are arguments to counter that as well.


sophis_id 60F
16373 posts
8/27/2015 9:46 pm

There would be two countries Miss Katie and you know it. The rights of the American people are slowly being eaten away number by number.

mendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Speech, and the Press
Amendment 2 - The Right to Bear Arms
Amendment 3 - The Housing of Soldiers
Amendment 4 - Protection from Unreasonable Searches and Seizures
Amendment 5 - Protection of Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property
Amendment 6 - Rights of Accused Persons in Criminal Cases
Amendment 7 - Rights in Civil Cases
Amendment 8 - Excessive Bail, Fines, and Punishments Forbidden
Amendment 9 - Other Rights Kept by the People
Amendment 10 - Undelegated Powers Kept by the States and the People

As the removal of rights creep up the list, the eyes and hearts will focus on what is remaining - not what was lost...and people with fight for it. Shrugs. Hopefully not in my lifetime.



Inner Fucking Peace: watch?v=92i5m3tV5XY


IAmMichaelURKnot 62M
14380 posts
8/27/2015 10:03 pm

    Quoting alt5250:
    IamMichaelURKnot. Agree with you for the most part & yes I used a circular argument on the 2nd amendment.

    But the first point was to illustrate how firepower keeps escalating. While illegal there can be no doubt quite a few are taking assault style weapons built to meet the law & modifying them.

    Re the 2nd amendment... The only difference is that one kills with great effectiveness & the other not so much.. But there are arguments to counter that as well.
Science and technology advance. The founding fathers were aware of that. They experienced ( and both Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson contributed to ) advances in science and technology during their lifetimes.

The long rifle represented an advance in technology over the smooth bore musket. Long rifles were in common use in the American colonies by the late 18th century. The long rifle had greater range and accuracy than a smooth bore musket, and therefore was more effective at killing both game animals and humans (as the British Army, armed mainly with smooth bore muskets, learned at the Battle of Saratoga where the Continental Army used long rifles with devastating effect ).

I remember now.


marshamay 35F
5934 posts
9/9/2015 9:08 pm

    Quoting  :

i was talking about the alleged murder of the 2 reporters killed by the gay african american fellow when i mentioned racism and a flag , but o well , sorry Kate , i didn't mean to get involved in an argument on your post , but shit happens ,


marshamay 35F
5934 posts
9/10/2015 8:27 am

I 'm afraid i disagree . The flag was removed from the state buildings . Even here in another country fair vendors were forced to stop selling and hide to the ones they had for sale . As far as racism goes it always seems to be a one way street . No mention of non white to white allowed . But that's just the way i see it and i'm not going to continue this forever . As for you not liking how i say things i guess you'l just have to get over it .



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